Salma Refass, Founder of Yadra & The Radical Commons

Salma Refass, Founder of Yadra & The Radical Commons

• The profound impact of witnessing the 2008 economic crisis as an economics student.
• Observing the failures of traditional economic models to explain real-world crises.
  

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In this compelling episode of “The Brand Called You,” host Ashutosh Garg engages in a deep-dive conversation with Salma Refass — researcher, artist, and educator — about challenging economic orthodoxies, making knowledge public, and rethinking how policy is designed for the real world.

Here’s what you’ll discover:

00:50 | What early experiences led Salma Refass to question the value-neutral framing of economics during her training?

• The profound impact of witnessing the 2008 economic crisis as an economics student.
• Observing the failures of traditional economic models to explain real-world crises.
• The realization that ideological assumptions are often presented as “neutral” in economic education.

02:33 | Was there a specific moment when Salma Refass realized numbers alone could not capture social realities?

• Personal stories from Madrid during the European sovereign debt crisis.
• The disconnect between statistics (GDP, layoffs) and the visible human impact, including rising homelessness.
• A critique of the overreliance on numbers and the selective stories they can tell.

05:12 | What does “extractive policy” look like in practice, and how does it affect citizens?

• Citizens being treated as data points rather than political subjects.
• Participation often being superficial, where data is extracted under the guise of public input.
• The role of consultants and intermediaries in filtering and predetermining outcomes.

10:53 | Why does Salma Refass criticize the consulting-driven approach to policymaking?

• The dominance of the “consulting industrial complex” in public policy.
• Policy research becoming bureaucratic and disconnected from real impact.
• The gap between public engagement rhetoric and actual citizen involvement.
• The need to shift power: who defines problems, and whose knowledge counts.

10:56 | Why is complexity often used as a gatekeeping tool in policy and knowledge sharing?

• Jargon and complexity are often used to protect professional authority.
• Complexity narrows participation and fosters political exclusion.
• The importance of making public knowledge accessible — not oversimplified.

12:08 | What inspired Salma Refass to launch the “Public Segment” podcast?

• The realization that access to knowledge — not the absence of it — is the real gap.
• The podcast’s aim: translating deep research into accessible discussions for public engagement.
• Radical Commons as a platform to nurture alternative knowledge and solidarity.

14:04 | How does Salma Refass define “Radical Commons,” and why is imagination important for social change?

• The power of imagination to make alternative futures possible.
• How dominant capitalist realism limits our ability to envision systemic change.
• Radical Commons as a space for nurturing alternative ways of living and organizing.

15:54 | How does dominant economic thinking restrict our ability to imagine alternative futures?

• The naturalization of markets and rationality as “givens.”
• Questioning markets’ inevitability and exploring values like reciprocity, care, and solidarity.
• The call to democratize economics and bring these conversations to everyone.

RESOURCES:

Learn more about Salma Refass: LinkedIn

Enjoyed this podcast?

Why is “complexity” used as a gatekeeping tool? It’s simple: the idea that “only experts” can understand keeps circles tight, protects authority, and excludes the public — depoliticizing people who are told issues are “too complex” for them.

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Thanks for listening!

• The profound impact of witnessing the 2008 economic crisis as an economics student.
• Observing the failures of traditional economic models to explain real-world crises.
• The realization that ideological assumptions are often presented as “neutral” in economic education.